Legislature(1999 - 2000)

01/24/2000 01:44 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                                                                        
                   January 24, 2000                                                                                             
                      1:44 p.m.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor, Chairman                                                                                                  
Senator John Torgerson                                                                                                          
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford, Vice-Chairman                                                                                             
Senator Dave Donley                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 3(JUD)                                                                                                    
"An Act relating to controlled substances and to the possession of                                                              
certain chemicals."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 3(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7(FIN) am                                                                                     
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska                                                               
relating to initiative and referendum petitions.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 45(FIN) am                                                                                                
"An Act relating to initiative and referendum petitions; and                                                                    
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 3(JUD)am  - No previous action.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CSHJR 7(FIN)am - No previous action.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 45(FIN)am - No previous action.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tom Brice                                                                                                        
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Sponsor of HB 3                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Gerald P. Luckhaupt                                                                                                         
Legislative Counsel                                                                                                             
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Testified on HB 3                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Nancy Bukar                                                                                                                 
Consumer Health Assn.                                                                                                           
Washington, D.C.                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supported HB 3                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Williams                                                                                                    
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:      Sponsor of HJR 7 and HB 45                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pete Buist                                                                                                                  
P.O. Box 71561                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska 99509                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supported HJR 7                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dick Bishop                                                                                                                 
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
P.O. Box 73902                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supported HJR 7 and HB 45                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Scott Kohlhaas                                                                                                              
204 East 15th Avenue, #604                                                                                                      
Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Against HJR 7 and HB 45                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ken Jacobus                                                                                                                 
425 G Street, #920                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Against HB 45                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Al Anders                                                                                                                   
2800 Valleywood Drive, #B                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska 99517                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Against HB 45                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bob Croom, Sr.                                                                                                              
Box 4029                                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska 99548                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Against HB 45                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dick Coose                                                                                                                  
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports HB 45 and HJR 7                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Gabe Sam                                                                                                                    
Tanana Chiefs Conference                                                                                                        
122 1st Avenue, Suite 600                                                                                                       
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:      Supports HJR 7                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-2, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN ROBIN TAYLOR called the Judiciary Committee meeting to                                                                 
order at 1:44 p.m. and announced HB 3 would be the first order of                                                               
business.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
           HB 3-DRUGS: POSSESSION OF LISTED CHEMICALS                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE, sponsor of HB 3, stated that methamphetamine                                                              
(METH) is a drug that is easily cooked using accessible chemicals.                                                              
METH is known as  "speed," "crank" and "ice" and is made from                                                                   
sudafed. The manufacturing process is volatile and dangerous                                                                    
because of the type of chemicals used, causing a tremendous health                                                              
risk for the public and the manufacturer.  Improper hygiene while                                                               
manufacturing is also  a public health risk.  The police are having                                                             
to send the chemicals to labs for specific identification before                                                                
they can make an arrest.  This legislation would allow the police                                                               
to make an arrest at the scene of the crime.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GERALD P. LUCKHAUPT, legal counsel, explained the bill creates                                                              
a new class of chemical that would be identified as essential in                                                                
the manufacturing of METH and are usually legal to possess.  If                                                                 
persons possess these chemicals with the intent to manufacture                                                                  
METH, the penalties are increased.  The penalty is now a Class B                                                                
felony and would increase to Class A--because of the danger and                                                                 
because of the cleanup costs.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Section 4 provides for the regulation of over-the-counter drugs.                                                                
Normally, these drugs  are not regulated by the state and                                                                       
possession is not a crime, but possession with the intent to                                                                    
manufacture an illegal drug would now be illegal in Alaska.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Section 5 identifies the chemicals essential for the manufacture of                                                             
METH.  These chemicals are all identified in federal law.  Federal                                                              
law makes it illegal to possess these chemicals without fulfilling                                                              
the regulatory requirements--paperwork must be completed by the                                                                 
wholesaler and client before purchasing these chemicals.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 563                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that many of the chemicals used in the                                                              
production of METH come from "cold remedies," and the intent of                                                                 
this legislation is not to make these products illegal unless they                                                              
are used for making METH.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if there was an objective standard within                                                                 
this legislation concerning intent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUCKHAUPT answered that intent would be determined by                                                                       
possession of the listed chemicals, glassware, cookbooks, and by                                                                
statements made when renting or when obtaining the ingredients.  It                                                             
would be similar to the way agents make their cases now.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if Alaska was behind other states in passing                                                              
this type of legislation.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUCKHAUPT responded that 20 to 25 states have this legislation                                                              
and a few states have more expansive laws.  The registration                                                                    
process is somewhat problematic, the  benefits  of registration                                                                 
have to be weighed against the costs imposed on business.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked if the registration process was for                                                                       
businesses  that have to report the sale of chemicals.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUCKHAUPT responded yes.  The registration process is now used                                                              
through the federal registry.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if the list of chemicals in this                                                                        
legislation was the same as the federal list.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUCKHAUPT answered the federal government identifies List 1 and                                                             
List 2 chemicals.  Possession of List 1 chemicals, with the intent                                                              
to manufacture, provides for a higher penalty than a List 2                                                                     
chemical.  This legislation combines List 1 and 2 chemicals and                                                                 
adds a few others.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TORGERSON  was worried about a regulation that would come                                                               
out of this legislation putting restrictions on the manufacture of                                                              
common substances such as "salt."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1068                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUCKHAUPT responded the "salt" being referenced to in the bill                                                              
is not table salt.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TORGERSON answered that the section starts with "any salt"                                                              
and possibly that term should be deleted.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUCKHAUPT responded that he would not do that because the                                                                   
nature of the chemical can be changed easily by just removing                                                                   
water.  "Salt" is a term used when chemicals have been reduced down                                                             
to a lesser state.  This term is used because the original chemical                                                             
can be altered in such a way that it is no longer the same.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1230                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
NANCY BUKAR, state government counsel for Consumer Health Care                                                                  
Products Assn., responded that her organization has worked closely                                                              
with Representative Brice and they are pleased to see the                                                                       
amendments they suggested incorporated into the bill.  This bill is                                                             
similar to legislation in 18 other states, and allows over-the-                                                                 
counter (OTC) products to be available to the consumer, while                                                                   
penalizing those who poses OTC products for the manufacture of                                                                  
METH.  Her organization supports the bill in its current version.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS thanked Representative Brice for introducing this                                                                 
legislation and commented that this is an issue of great importance                                                             
to his district.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that he also supports the legislation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS moved to pass CSHB 3(JUD)am on to its next committee                                                              
of referral.  With no objection, the motion carried.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1453                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
        HJR  7-CONST AM: INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS                                                                        
             HB  45-INITIATIVE/REFERENDUM PETITIONS                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, Sponsor of HJR 7 and HB 45, read the                                                                   
following sponsor statement:                                                                                                    
     HJR 7 and HB 45 were introduced to ensure statewide                                                                        
     consideration and discussion of an initiative petition before                                                              
     it is put on the ballot.  The legislation requires signatures                                                              
     equal to 10% of the ballots cast in the prior general election                                                             
     (same as current law) and 4% of ballots cast from 30 of the 40                                                             
     election districts.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     In past elections the greatest support for initiatives has                                                                 
     come from one general area of the state, the Anchorage-MatSu                                                               
     region.  The legislation is intended to further statewide                                                                  
     discussion of an issue before it reaches the voters on                                                                     
     election day.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska's population distribution is much different now than it                                                             
     was when our Constitution was approved.  Today, initiative                                                                 
     supporters can collect signatures in a limited area and get a                                                              
     question on the ballot.  The legislation will facilitate a                                                                 
     broader discussion of potential ballot questions, thus helping                                                             
     to create a balanced question which considers effects on all                                                               
     the citizens of Alaska.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     As we write laws in the Capitol, many perspectives are taken                                                               
     into account as issues are discussed through the committee                                                                 
     process.  During this process healthy debate, from                                                                         
     representatives of all areas of the state, is conducted.  This                                                             
     healthy debate gives all members opportunity to see how their                                                              
     lawmaking will affect areas that they do not represent.                                                                    
     Pertinent questions are asked and legislation is constantly                                                                
     amended to take into account those concerns.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Currently, initiatives can be put onto the ballot with very                                                                
     limited perspective.  Constructive analysis of a question,                                                                 
     from a statewide perspective, does not currently occur.  Right                                                             
     now signatures equaling 10% of ballots cast is required.  In                                                               
     addition, initiative sponsors must obtain one signature from                                                               
     27 districts.  One signature from a district is hardly                                                                     
     representative of a district's opinion on an issue.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     In closing, this legislation would get people from all over                                                                
     the state more involved in the initiative process.  This, in                                                               
     turn, can create an atmosphere of healthy debate and ensure                                                                
     questions which reach the ballot have a statewide perspective.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1605                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented that the U.S. Supreme Court issued the                                                                
"Buckley" decision which changed some of the current statutory laws                                                             
concerning who can distribute an initiative, the type of                                                                        
information on an initiative and the reporting requirements.                                                                    
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he had been working with Representative                                                                    
Williams' staff in getting Alaska law in compliance with the                                                                    
supreme court decision.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Because no one on the committee has reviewed the new committee                                                                  
substitute, Chairman Taylor announced the bill will be before the                                                               
committee again next week.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1706                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PETE BUIST, Alaska Trappers Assn. and the Coalition for the                                                                 
Alaskan Way of Life (CAL), stated that his organizations have seen                                                              
the common threat of "ballot box biology."  Fighting reactive                                                                   
campaigns against outside special interests is expensive and time                                                               
consuming.  His organization supports HJR 7 in its original form,                                                               
along with some changes they have submitted.  The current                                                                       
initiative process makes it too easy to place an initiative on the                                                              
ballot, and he urges the committee to restore the original language                                                             
to HJR 7.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), stated that AOC is                                                               
against "ballot box biology" regarding the management of fish and                                                               
wildlife.  AOC advocates a constitutional amendment making fish and                                                             
wildlife issues ineligible for the initiative process.  If the                                                                  
legislature is unable to take this approach, AOC urges the                                                                      
legislature to raise the number of petition signatures to 15% of                                                                
previous voters in each house district before the petition is                                                                   
accepted.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCOTT KOHLHAAS, Libertarian Party of Alaska, stated he is                                                                   
against HJR 7 and HB 45.  HB 45 makes the first amendment right to                                                              
petition the government very difficult and he feels the initiative                                                              
process should be made easier and not more difficult.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEN JACOBUS, representing himself, stated there is no need for                                                              
a constitutional amendment because there is no problem now getting                                                              
information to the people.  The entire process should not be harmed                                                             
to deal with one special interest group.  He has sent a letter to                                                               
the committee and urges the members to read it.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR commented the letter had not been received yet but                                                              
it would be distributed to committee members when it arrives.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Tape 00-2, Side B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. AL ANDERS, representing himself, stated the initiative process                                                              
is not a problem and does not need to be fixed.  He feels the                                                                   
process should be opened up more, and he is against HB 45 and HJR
7.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOB CROOM, SR., representing himself, stated he disagrees with                                                              
the 10% signature requirement because of the expense for rural                                                                  
areas and the remoteness of much of Alaska.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEN JACOBUS stated he felt there needed to be changes in the                                                                
petition law.  The provisions of the present law violate the U.S.                                                               
Constitution and need to be repealed.  Removing the 30 day grace                                                                
period last year nearly killed the voluntary  petition.  This                                                                   
almost guarantees that the only people who can petition are people                                                              
with money, and certain issues this year will not be on the ballot                                                              
because of the grace period.  Another issue to be removed is the                                                                
dollar per signature limit, and public access also needs to be                                                                  
reviewed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR acknowledged that the witnesses' comments would be                                                              
utilized on both HJR 7 and HB 45 because they are companion pieces                                                              
of legislation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1973                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS acknowledged that he agrees with Mr. Jacobus'                                                                     
comments on both pieces of legislation and he will continue to                                                                  
argue against restricting peoples' rights to petition the                                                                       
government.  The  statutes from the federal case need to be cleared                                                             
up separately from this legislation.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TORGERSON stated he agrees with both sides of the issue,                                                                
and a balance needs to be found so the process will not be too                                                                  
restrictive.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR wants to see "Buckley" utilized to clean up the                                                                 
statutes and to create a clear understanding of the process.                                                                    
Representative Williams' amendment may have to list fish and game                                                               
matters as ineligible for initiative action.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked the Chairman for a preview of the committee                                                                 
substitute.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said he has asked the legal drafter to work with                                                                
Representative Williams to integrate the changes that are necessary                                                             
under "Buckley."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1719                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICK COOSE, representing himself, stated he supports HJR 7 and                                                              
HB 45.  Mr. Coose encouraged the committee members to read Undo                                                                 
Influence by Ron Arnold.  He wants outside influences stopped and                                                               
he feels this legislation will help.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GABE SAM, Director of Wildlife and Parks for the Tanana                                                                     
Chiefs Conference, read from a resolution by the Board of                                                                       
Directors.                                                                                                                      
                        Resolution 99-19                                                                                        
            Wildlife Management By Ballot Initiative                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
WHEREAS,  in recent years wildlife management issues have been                                                                  
          brought to the voters by way of Ballot Initiatives,                                                                   
          which do not incorporate good science, but rely on                                                                    
          emotion driven by a few pictures or video clips and                                                                   
          allow the money to be spent on advertising; and                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
WHEREAS,  rural residents would lose important opportunities to                                                                 
provide subsistence food or cash economy by loss of an issue in                                                                 
an election; and                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WHEREAS,  the management of fish and game resources is best left                                                                
          to the professionals on a Federal Subsistence Board,                                                                  
          the Department of Fish and Game and the State Board of                                                                
          Game; and                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WHEREAS,  there is a constitutional amendment (HJR 7) sponsored                                                                 
          by Representative Williams that would require 15% of                                                                  
          past voters' signatures in 3/4 of the State's election                                                                
          districts for an issue to be certified for ballot                                                                     
          initiatives; and                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
WHEREAS,  there is also a constitutional amendment resolution                                                                   
          (HJR 3) sponsored by Representative Bunde of Anchorage                                                                
          that would require a 2/3 majority for any wildlife                                                                    
          management issue to pass by initiative.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Tanana Chiefs Board of                                                                    
          Directors urges TCC staff to work in opposition to                                                                    
          wildlife management by ballot initiative, and to                                                                      
          support HJR 3 and 7 that would restrict the ability of                                                                
          such issues to come to the voters.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
This resolution was submitted by the McGrath Native Village                                                                     
Council, last year, at their annual convention.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
With no further business to come before the committee, CHAIRMAN                                                                 
TAYLOR adjourned the meeting at 2:45 p.m.                                                                                       

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